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Hi everyone! First of all, THANK YOU to everyone who sent me a Valentinr yesterday - it was so sweet opening those. *hugs*

But, on to the main topic of this post. I have been asked very graciously by jen_in_japan to submit an essay about writing movieverse Clois to the new superhero_muses community. I have a million ideas tumbling about my head, so in order to help me get them into some semblance of order, I thought that I would ask my awesome f-list!

Those of you who write movieverse Clois (a large portion of my friends list), know that there are many issues in writing this couple. Trying to tackle them all caused me to write a 102,000 word fanfic novel, and I didn't even get to all of them! There are also certain differences about this couple's relationship that are movieverse specific, although we all know that all incarnations (comics, TV, cartoon) have influenced our characterizations to a greater or lesser degree.

Without biasing you about the main issues I see, I would like for anyone who is inclined to comment with the issues you see as being important to cover in an essay like this. I'm shooting for about 5,000 words, but it could be more or less. I promise to give credit where credit is due, if your suggestions make it into the final essay, okay? And I'll make sure to pimp it once it's published, so you can all go over and discuss it with the fine folks over there!

So, who wants to be first? :D


( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
Feb. 15th, 2007 02:50 pm (UTC)
This might be a repeat of some things you already know about me, but since you asked so nicely...

Lois is a ver yinteresting character whether she is movieverse Lois or comic book Lois. Here you have this very intelligent woman who is an investigative reporter who writes some of the most informative articles about Superman, has flown with Superman, and is in love with Superman, and yet a suit and a pair of glasses is all it takes to hide the truth from her. When I talk to people who have a problem with Superman as a whole, this is one of the things that is always mentioned. How believeable is it that Lois and the rest of the world wouldn't notice Clark for who he really is?

Since you are talking about movieverse Lois, my answer to that is that Chris Reeve really did the best job of any actor (including Brandon I must say) of making Clark look and feel and sound so totally different from Superman that I can believe it. Specifically what comes to mind is the scene in Superman The Movie after Lois and Superman have flown together and then Clark comes to take her out on a date. Lois goes to get a coat and Clark removes his glasses and stands up straight and lowers his voice and for a moment we see Superman and not Clark. Then, in the next instant, he slouches and raises the pitch of his voice and puts the glasses back on and he's right back to being Clark. I LOVE that moment. It shows just how credible it is that no one sees him for who he really is and makes Lois not seems so clueless to it.

But that isn't what has made me write fanfiction and become head over heals addicted to Superman in the last few months. For me, what totally sucked me in after Superman Returns was the whole question of just how much Lois remembered. She obviously has made love to Superman, but in Superman II, Supes kissed her so that she owuld forget everything. So in SR we have a Lois who seems to remember some intimacy with Superman but who doesn't know Superman is Clark Kent. I had to hunt down several articles until I was able to find Bryan Singer's explaination on "What Lois knows" and I was very dissapointed. Singer feels that Superman and Lois had an intimate relationship WITHOUT her ever knowing he was Clark, and to me, I just don't think Superman would do that.

Thus, right now the biggest issue facing anyone who wants to write about movieverse Lois is that they first have to decide just how much Lois remembers and how she got there. Then they have to decide at what point Lois knew her son was Superman's son. Did she know right from the start as Kate Bosworth hinted at in the Behind the Scenes DVD? Or did she only suspect and then have it confirmed when Jason thew that piano in SR? As a reader you have to keep track of which Lois is in which story, and that makes following WIPs difficult.

I hope that is something like what you wanted. That I've at least touched on something to inspire you or get you going in some way. I can't wait to read this when you are done!
Feb. 15th, 2007 03:00 pm (UTC)
Thanks, Alphie! There will definitely be a section devoted to "How much does Lois remember?" -- "How much does she know?" This is one of the ISSUES (imagine that in 70-point type) of the movieverse relationship, and one which many of us have completely ignored Singer's comments, because you're right! To many of us, sleeping with Superman without knowing the Super!Secret doesn't make sense. But I have read varying points of view on this topic, so I definitely would like to ask:

If you are a proponent of Singer's point of view, please weigh in! Tell me your thoughts, just in case there are aspects I haven't yet read or pondered. I'm sure there are. :)
Feb. 15th, 2007 03:06 pm (UTC)
I believe that Lois and Clark's relationship is an evolving one no matter what universe (film, TV, comic) they are written in. There has always been an attraction between Lois and Superman. It's too bad that Superman catches Lois' attention more than Clark, because of this Clark has to work extra hard to win Lois' favour despite going against himself to do so. In a way, this is similar to Spider-Man and Black Cat's relationship in the beginning. Since Cat was only interested with the man behind the mask like Lois is interested in the man with the cape.

The only time that Lois took an interest in Clark, at least in the films, was when she thought that he was Superman. But that's not good enough, at least I think so because you have to love the whole person and not just a certain aspect of him. If you don't, the relationship will not work and I think Clark deserves someone like that. In the comics, that does happen between them but it would be interesting to see that happen in a movie.
Feb. 15th, 2007 03:15 pm (UTC)
WHAM! You guys are already jumping on all the good points right away! *claps delightedly*

Movieverse Lois falls for Superman, NOT Clark - and it's not until she suspects who Clark really is that she changes her opinion. This is absolutely another HUGE issue in the movies. I have a whole theory in the back of my mind about why this is, but let me summarize:

The original movies were based on a pre-Crisis Superman. Lois and Clark: TNAOS was post-Crisis. It was only post-Crisis that Lois fell for Clark before knowing his secret. So with Superman Returns we have a very interesting clash of ideas. A story that is a rough sequel to the Donner movies, but with an audience that has changed its attitudes about who Lois should be falling in love with!

Thanks, Mark... there will be a section devoted to this as well. Anyone else, feel free to add to this topic of discussion. :)
Feb. 15th, 2007 04:09 pm (UTC)
So, are you going to do a sort-of character study on the movie-verse Clois? Because that would be pretty interesting...

I think Mark really nailed it with Lois falling for Sups and not Clark. I think that if you take on a character study of the two characters in this, its important that you bring out that Clark is "Clark" - no matter what. Sups is just what he can do. I always like bigning out that above all else, he is a MAN first, SUperhero second. And I think that is improtant for Lois too.

Another thing, not so much in the romance field is their work relationship. Movie Lois doesn't appreciate that the guy is a pretty darn good investigative reporter. ('kay I might be running comic and TV verse intot his a little) but I think it would be neat to explore the 'work' facet of thier life. How they share credit for a story, investigative differences, tactics they use (questionable or otherwise), that sort of thing.

Being a reporter and at the top of her game is important to Lois' being. It might be neat to delve intot hat a little and how she intereacts with Clark as a partner AND in competition for the best stories...*wink*

Just some things I thought of whne I saw this, I dunno if I just repeated what others have said. LOL! Interesting topic for an essay though, Barb!
Feb. 15th, 2007 05:44 pm (UTC)
I wasn't given any specific slant for the essay other than: "Writing movieverse Clois" -- but there is a broad range to deal with there. I think a good introductory essay would include character sketches (Lois, Clark, Richard, Jason, Perry, Jimmy) but also discuss the issues the couple face, and how these issues might be the same or different from their TV, comics and cartoon versions.

The issue you mention above - he's Clark - no matter what...? While I believe this to be essentially true, I'm not sure we've seen the evidence of that thinking in the scripts or direction of the movies. There is certainly a longing for acceptance that Clark has, an essential loneliness that he desperately wants to fill... But movieverse Clark is somewhat of a "Silver Age" type of Clark, a disguise. I HOPE that Singer will go the post-Crisis route in the sequel... Let Lois see Clark for who he really is... but only time will tell.
Feb. 15th, 2007 07:15 pm (UTC)
But movieverse Clark is somewhat of a "Silver Age" type of Clark, a disguise.

Hey, that's something to bring out too...his 'Clark' disguise as it's matured over the years and the movies. And I think the lonliness factor is something that is prominant in his character, and I too hope that Singer will let Clark develop a bit more, so Lois can see him for who he is - a guy who happens to be Superman. LOL!

And you can always bring the Richard-factor in. How that affects the Clois relationship in movie verse...not that you didn't already deal with it wonderfully in your novella! *wink*

I'm working on a character study centric for BONES too...the path and development of thier partnership and friendship through some harrowing events in the last few eps. It has really jumped ahead, and seeing those changes in important and close-knit relationships is a lot of fun to explore, especially with intriguing characters like Clark/Lois and Booth/Brennan.
So I'll be doing the same thing for Booth/Brennan as you are for Clois! *hee!*
Feb. 15th, 2007 05:16 pm (UTC)
Despite the fact that I haven't posted any movie-verse clois yet, the files(that will never see the light of day) that I saved onto my computer after watching the movie serve as proof that I have at least spent some time thinking about it. There are so many issues that can appear when writing (or in my case thinking about writing) movie-verse clois. One specific thing pops into my mind after reading the different fanfic and pondering over different ways to handle the issues.

The addition of Richard and cute little Jason in SR created an interesting dynamic for the movie-verse fics. One thing that could really muck up a potentially promising dynamic is authors ignoring the fact that both Lois and Clark are above anything else good people. I can't see Lois or Clark going out of their way to hurt Richard or Jason in any way. As much as readers want to see clois interaction in fanfic, if Richard and Jason are ignored problems will undoubtingly arrise. Having Richard killed off in chapter 1, having him move to a foreign country never to be heard from again, or having Lois and Superman just go about having an affair while Richard sits at home caring for Jason just don't work very well (not that I'm pointing fingers at anyone or any fanfic that I've read). If Lois' relationship with Richard and her concern about her son's wellbeing isn't handled carefully with tact, I can forsee major problems developing later in the story.

Lois is portrayed as a strong, independent person who also has a hard-to-reach soft interior. Clark/Superman has issues all his own along with the desire to do good and an undying love for Lois and now obvious concern about his son. I can't see either of them stepping so far out of character to ignore these baic traits. Keeping the traits intact and yet still allowing Lois and Clark to be a couple is a major issue authors must deal with and it is definitely going to take more than a few chapters of fanfic to cover that issue in itself not to mention the multitude of other problems along the way. The clois relationship is supposed to be epic not a tacky soap opera. My personal belief is that if an author can jump over that hurdle gracefully, they are well on their way to preparing for the rest of the hurdles of the clois relationship.

Does that sound right or is it just me going off on another tangent? *shrugs*
Feb. 15th, 2007 05:28 pm (UTC)
Richard does prove to be a major problem - as does Jason obviously. That's why in my own fic I went with a very different route than every oether fan fic writer and I kept Lois and Richard together for years and years and years. I did succumb to the draw of killing him off eventually, but not until after he and Lois had a very long life and marriage together, raising Jason as their son even though he had another parent who wasn't around as much. I don't agree with people who make him a bad guy or kill him off in chapter one as you said. Richard is a good person or else Lois wouldn't trust her son with him. Heck, for taht matter, Superman wouldn't trust his son with him! And T the end of SR, we have Supes willingly, knowingly leave Jason in the protection of Lois and Richard.
Feb. 15th, 2007 05:35 pm (UTC)
I'm so pleased at the discussion this is sparking! *grins broadly*

Truly, the addition of Richard and Jason makes gives the movieverse a very different spin. I agree with both of you (obviously, as you both read DV) that Richard has to be treated with respect and care. There is a certain amount of appeal to tossing him aside to make things easier, and I get that, but I find the story much more interesting to write when he's a major part of the story.

Jason has a huge set of issues involved with him as well, not the least of which is whether DC would ever consider him to be canon! I would like to hear more from people on the subject of Jason, as well.

There will definitely be sections devoted to Richard and Jason in this essay. Thanks for the input!
Feb. 15th, 2007 05:43 pm (UTC)
Step back... How deep do we want to dig into Jason? I'm going to IM you...

I think everyone knows that Jason... well... Jason is kind of my thing. So let me check this out and see what I can do for Jason separate from Lois.
Feb. 15th, 2007 06:58 pm (UTC)

My tangent actually makes sense? I'm pleased too.

I would consider myself one of the people who previously would have just loved to have Richard get trapped in a black hole but the desire of being truthful to the characters interferes with my evil plans. I'm still reeling from the shock of actually liking Richard in DV. Putting my initial evilness aside I believ that using Richard in the right way is interesting for the story. He could play a very important role.

Jason is such a sweetie and it hurts my heart that so many surround his characters. Someone so cute shouldn't have to be problematic to write about but alas that is the way things go. His age allows him to be a little more flexible when it comes to understanding the situation although I'm not sure how much that helps in the long run.
Feb. 15th, 2007 07:10 pm (UTC)
Well lets see. Movie specific huh? I guess the big thing is that she is attracted to Superman first. She really doesn't seem to notice Clark as much. In the first movie he was bending over backwards trying to catch her attention and she just didn't see what was in front of her. When we write the couple we have maybe more liberties. We can get into family life if we want too, talk more about how they are as a couple, where as if they did that souly in the movies without any action what so ever, the audience might get borred. I wouldn't mind more scenes with the two of them, Lois and Clark and I loved the second movie for that reason.

I don't know a whole lot about the comics other than what my brother has said but one thing that really bugged him about the new movie was Richard. He's a die hard comic fan and said that Lois was Meant for Clark, aka Superman and that really lost him when Ricahrd was introduced. He coudln't see her with anyone else even though Clark left her for five years.

Back to the second movie, though I liked that the explored the love between the couple and the fact that Kal El had grown to love just her, over the others, and that he was willing to give up his powers against what his father wished for him, Donner cut..like it better now. He's lived on earth for so long that he's become a part of them. He's Kryptonian but in the movies they seem to like to explore the human side ofhim, which they did alot of in Returns. I really like that they gave him a son. I've read alot of people who are against that, but I myself like that aspect because there is great potential there.

I may be getting away from what you are asking but these are the things I liked about the movies, and what drew me to write my stories was the family aspect. How his life would change. He will have to balance his time with the world and with his son, or maybe they won't say anything to Jason and Lois will Marry Richard..Winks at Alphie...I don't think they will go that route, but as writers we can explore pretty much anything we want too with all of this.

I would write on but I have to get ready for work.


Hope this helpes...

Feb. 17th, 2007 02:35 pm (UTC)
Thank you for commenting! You bring up some great points. I will try to mention or cover in more detail everything you said! :)
Feb. 17th, 2007 12:56 am (UTC)
Agh, according to MyLJ, it's currently telling me that today is your birthday... according to my part of the world.

So yes. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Barb :) May you always be able to write long novel-length pieces of work that make people cry from the artistic beauty of it.

Feb. 17th, 2007 02:53 am (UTC)
Yay! Yes, it is! And I was just out celebrating it with LOTS and LOTS of sushi. Although it's not quite the 17th here yet. Thanks! *kiss*
Feb. 17th, 2007 03:32 am (UTC)
Haha, yay :) Sushi is good... I want sushi, but i will have to content myself with lots of Chinese food for Chinese New Year. *hugs*
Feb. 17th, 2007 10:35 am (UTC)
I just saw on MyLJ that it's your birthday! I just wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday! I pray that God grants all of your Birhday Wishes.

Feb. 17th, 2007 02:40 pm (UTC)
Thank you!! All the birthday wishes are SO nice!
Feb. 17th, 2007 12:56 pm (UTC)
Happy Birthday!!! *bday hugs*
Feb. 17th, 2007 02:41 pm (UTC)
Thank you so much! *twirls*
Feb. 17th, 2007 02:50 pm (UTC)
Happy birthday!
Look in (at?) my LJ please... *gg*

*hugs you*
Feb. 17th, 2007 03:32 pm (UTC)
Oh my freakin' wow! That's just AWESOME! *kiss*

Feb. 18th, 2007 05:46 am (UTC)
Ooh! I am totally joining this community and watching it very intently. Not only will you be writing an essay (nerd that I am, I LOVE fandom essays!), there are loads of Dick workshops planned as well, including Dick/Babs! (Insert swooning here.) It’s quite difficult to resist Dick, I see. (And oh, how that can be misconstrued…hehe!)
Feb. 18th, 2007 01:17 pm (UTC)
I thought you might be interested in this comm, Michelle! I thought of you immediately when I saw that workshop. So far, there's only been one, "Writing Drabbles" by merfilly, but the others look pretty good, and alphielj might write one, too, if you saw.

And while I have... um... enjoyed Dick in the past (insert adolescent giggling here), I really have never considered writing him. So, maybe this workshop will open my eyes to an interesting new world of fic!

Have you read any of the work by the people on the comm?
Feb. 18th, 2007 09:39 pm (UTC)
Oh, hey, I didn't know Lori was going to write one too! How awesome! A comm needs variety. Lemme guess...Jason White? She's become the authority on him, haha.

"And while I have... um... enjoyed Dick in the past (insert adolescent giggling here), I really have never considered writing him. So, maybe this workshop will open my eyes to an interesting new world of fic!"

I think I would die if you ever wrote Dick!fic. DIE.

And no, I can't say that I have ever read any of the work of anyone on the comm minus yours and Alphie's, but I'm familiar with many of their names; I've seen them around various communities, occasionally cribbing icons off them and the like, hah.

This is gonna be fun!
Feb. 20th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
There was an interesting and lengthy discussion about the Clark/Lois relationship over on the metropolisfic.com forums you might want to look at as well. Primarily focusing on Superman Returns and by extension the rest of the movieverse, and a pretty good balance of pro-Clois and anti-Clois viewpoints.

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )

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